Mackin Carroll
Mackin Carroll has just released his new single “Learning How to Swim” and it’s a must listen. The self-produced single is about dealing with depression as a kid. As you know, my blog is all about music, community and mental health - so featuring this artist and this song only makes sense. I instantly enjoyed listening to this song. It’s pure, honest and relatable. The melodies are beautiful and listening to it feels like watching a beautiful movie. Congrats Mackin on this new song and thank you for this conversation.
“Learning How to Swim” is now available :)
Photo credit: Alex Pachino
Introduce yourself - what's your story?
I’m an indie kid from the suburbs that grew up splitting time between quietly crafting songs in my bedroom on the acoustic guitar and shouting over drums and guitars in the garage while I played bass guitar. Now I’m in LA and I self-produce, still mostly in my bedroom. I write introspective songs about all things heart and mind and produce off-kilter, eclectic sounding records~
"Learning How to Swim" is your new single - what's the inspiration behind this song?
The song’s about dealing with depression as a kid and not having the tools to navigate it or talk about it. I heard Duncan Trussell on his podcast share a quote about how the madman drowns in the same waters that the mystic swims or something to that effect. That swimming/drowning concept stuck with me a lot. And as a very feeling person from early on, it either feels like I’m swimming or drowning - but I’m always in the water no matter what.
When did you start working on "Learning How to Swim"? Could you describe the songwriting/production process? Who helped you create it?
I actually had the title years ago and I shared it with friends like, “this would be a cool album title”. And now here it is! Another title I had at the time was “How to Enjoy Drowning”, but that was less of a hit with my friends. I wrote the song on a Wurlitzer in my bedroom early in the pandemic. I shared early versions of the song with close friends/trusted peers, and my friend Alex Pachino (an incredible artist and producer in his own right) kindly dared me to write a better second verse. And I’m eternally grateful that he gave me that push. Also I had my dad whistle on the song and there’s a blend of us whistling together in the recording, which spiritually, makes me extremely happy. He’s not a musician and he really put so much effort into whistling well and it was a really special moment getting to record him on this particular song.
What did you feel when writing this song?
It was really profound, actually. It was the first time I felt this connection and sympathy for my younger self in this way. I highly recommend it if you’re into writing words at all - to go back and try to give yourself the words you didn’t have at the time. The whole thing was very cathartic. It’s always a dance when writing about inner turmoil whether to pull punches or lay things bare at the risk of being too intense. And it felt really nice to capture the despair without watering it down (excuse the pun). Hopefully - it goes beyond that, but it felt nice to do justice to my experience.
What do you want people to feel when listening to this song?
An inhale, an exhale, a scream, and then an exhale again. I want people to feel like they’re being thrown around by the waves a little bit, but also floating downstream.
Hopefully people feel seen and held ultimately. But mostly less alone re: feelings of helplessness/despair/utter sadness. And like water, all feelings will pass and change.
What made you want to release "Learning How to Swim"?
I really feel like it’s my best work as a songwriter, arranger, and producer. And for me it captures that feeling of growing up hyperemotional, both celebrating its gifts and lamenting its woes. And so much of the time as a young emo kid, there was incredible shame and self-hatred that I hope to alleviate even if only temporarily in others.
What can you tell us about the artwork?
Bella Porter is a phenomenal artist! (@bellaportermakesart on Instagram) She designed the album cover, which all the single covers pull from. The album cover is a faceless figure with their feet in the pool, with a pennant/banner hung overhead and all against a dark void-like background. The emptiness and simplicity of that imagery really speaks to me. It’s all there, the solitude, the warmth, the childlike innocence, the celebratory party flags, the lost in space of it all. For the single, I hand drew a quick swimming pool and left it empty. But it all stems from Bella’s phenomenal work. I also drew a lot as a kid and listened to albums, so it felt special/cool to have that connection to the single artwork - doing something I used to do as a kid to support a song that’s meant to be from that younger me’s POV with words he didn’t have.
What message do you want to give to anyone going through depression?
That it fucking sucks and I fucking get it. And I know you feel alone, but I promise you aren’t. And I know it feels like this is it, but especially if you’re young, know that it isn’t. It passes. It lessens. There are so many great kinds of treatment available like therapy, medication, etc. that have worked great for so many including myself. I was scared to go on antidepressants because I thought it would numb me or dull my sense of self/experience of the world. But I’ve felt more myself on medication. Like a weighted vest got removed. And there’s also the dangerous myth that you need to be/stay miserable to make captivating art. Complete bullshit. When I’m depressed, I don’t do anything. When I’m well, I make a lot more stuff and it’s better stuff. It’s also hard when it’s part of your identity, being “the sad person”. But I promise you, you are not your sadness. And if you can let it go, there’s so much beautiful you there. The attachment to it can keep you in a bad place. But also it’s really fucking hard. And you get to be kind to yourself at every step of the process, even if that’s just getting through the day.
How's it like to release music in 2021? Any challenges?
Oh, gosh. I mean it’s brutal every time but also exciting. Tough to cut through the noise on social media. Like you put your whole heart into a thing and it gets X number of likes and then you scroll down and some Animorph meme gets way more likes. So it’s challenging not to take the numbers/quantification thing personally.
The hardest part is breaking through the exhaustion and cynicism! Usually at the end of the making of a thing, I’m so burnt out that the last thing I wanna do is promote my music. But lately I’ve been thinking about it like a boat that I’ve built. And instead of casting it off to sea and crossing my fingers it gets to Catalina, I’m climbing in and paddling.
As an artist, what is the hardest part? And what is the best part?
The hardest part of being an artist is self-doubt. It’s easy to get caught up and in your head about what’s worth saying and what isn’t and it’s easy to disqualify yourself. You have to rage against that every day. And capitalism is not a very artistically nurturing system, and the pressures to survive within that system can be really hard to balance with your artistic goals. Lots of people have artfully threaded the needle, but it’s a battle and a lot of compromising and I wonder if it doesn’t have to be that way.
The best part of being an artist is saying something in a way that only you could say it that reflects your truth in some way and sharing with other people and witnessing some transcendence, catharsis, joy, or insight gained by another. It’s also cool when things take on a life of their own and audiences pull things out that you didn’t directly put in there. Also the best part of being an artist is the alchemy of transforming all your hate and anger and despair and romance and anything at all into something beautiful. It’s very activating.
What are your thoughts on today's music industry? If you could change one thing, what would it be?
I think people are making rad ass shit and always will. I wish DSP’s compensated artists/content creators better. We’re all at the beck and call of these tech giants that profit off of the work of artists and don’t have our best interests at heart. I don’t like getting romantic about “the good old days” because people were taking advantage of artists in the 60’s too. But the Squid Game of scrambling to get on playlists run by coders and dancing for the tech lords in hopes they throw you a bone sucks. And I don’t think things have to be this way. I think there’s a version of DSP’s that nurture artists and as a result, we have a more beautiful world.
What biggest life lessons have you learned so far?
Surround yourself with good people and the rest will take care of itself.
You don’t have to figure everything out by yourself.
Better actions leads to you to better feelings and bad feelings won’t lead you to better actions.
Don’t send a big ass emotional feelings dump text. Take a day. Talk it over with someone. It will go infinitely better.
There might be a better perspective on the situation you’re in.
Regrets are vain. Concern yourself only with what can make you better today.
All love is true love.
Truth and kindness are always worth it.
In your opinion, what would make the world a better place?
Mandatory nap time. Universal healthcare. Redistribution of wealth. Abolishment of prisons. Some sort of reformation of corporations to be compelled to act in the interest of the greater good. Supportive venues for artistic communities to develop and thrive.
What message do you want to deliver to the world?
I wish to offer compassion, joy, and insight. I want to make people feel less alone.
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